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Talk:Fiora/@comment-25548760-20150807083703
I've to admit that actually i can't understand the purpose of this rework. I prob still miss where and what this new fiora is supposed to be, or what Riot try to do with this release. I'd like to share my doubt.... Focus on those points : 1 - Where fiora is supposed to go and how she's supposed to gain the lead 2 - Which build are supposed to work on her 3 - Which role she cover on a teamfight / game phase 1 - Considering her passive, skill, no wave clear and low single target sustained damage, Fiora jungler is definetely NOT an option. On mid she would fit only versus another melee based champ, but i doubt she would have easy times anyway ( pretty linear engage, poor disengage ). The standard mage will just outrange her, making even pointless the try. So the only remaining place for her is top, where her kit should supposed to shine. Top, the lane of uber tank hp stacker ( maokai, cho, gnar, voli, nasus, darius )A ,sustained damage mage ( vlad, rumble, lis )B , uber duelist with unreal lategame ( jax, irelia, trynda ) orsnowballing potential ( riven / pa / reng ) C. Without itemization, her kit work around short trade burst : procching as many vital spot she can trought autoattack reset and mov speed, gaining back a bit of health. So she's supposed to go in, drop some damage, and retreat before enemy wave crash her down or enemy reteliate way to hard. She can no more keep dishing out damage in prolonged trade ( no more attack speed on E, risposte, the double q burst and the nice Ad bonus who make her unique ) . She's definetely forced to retreat. But how? Wihtout a form of damage reduction or mitigaion ( no reliable cc, not even a shield ) , the only option left is to just walk away. An option that could work only on theorycraft. The uber tankA got enought cc to lock her down in place and force her to suffer allied minion focused fire plus their own damage, just before start "regain" hp trought their sustain ability ( see mao, cho ) , making Fiora even unable to recover hp lost due to mechanics of her new passive ( to recover hp, she need to proc vital. If she try to proc vital... she'll be locked down again ). The sustained mageB, got enought sustained damage to chase you down trought your retreat ( again their damage + minion > your burst ) . The C , duelist with hight scaling but low early, actually may suffer this trade, but a good player will just keep dancing inside is wave until he got his powerspike, giving little to no chance to force trade on them, confident on the fact they will outscale anyway. So you have to force fight early to set lead/zone them away, or to be overhelmed after. On neither of those 3 case fiora shine one a 1v1 versus an equally skilled enemy. A bit of knowledge from enemy wave management is all what enemy mean to " counter the grand duelist ". So we move to the second option : we sit on lane and ... farm passively . Even on this scenario she miss wave clear, she miss Hp regen ( her kit focus on aggressive play on enemy, not passive farming ) , she miss micro power spike on skill and her lv6 ( who will be delayed tho tower hug ) does not provide an huge powerspike anyway. The picture that came up after this point of view is a pretty mediocre laning phase champ, easy to zone and set at bay undertower. 2 - From Rioter's word, her kit should be supposed ( always on chart ) to give her time to dish out more sustained damage without the need of an heavy investiment in a glass cannon build. That's true. Her true damage on proc is a nice boost in damage but.. at which cost this buff came ? We lose her little but not conditional sustain ( hp regen ), we lost tower melting ability and jungler control ( e and vital who no proc on monsters ), exteded fight potential ( E + mov speed bonus + orbwalk + increased Ad ) and easy engage potential ( q+q ) and the reliable status of untargettable during her old ulti ( who shine in mid game teamfight for dive/gank). The possibile build path are, like someone of you suggest : A - Assassin fiora , the "i won't change my approach". Full damage, full burst oriented. Works better on old fiora but could work in new one, buts it's like playing ap rengar : could works, but it's a waste for what the kit offer. Assassin Fiora is still squisci, still got problem to reach enemy backline and survive enought time ( even more right now wihtout her one point wonder ulti ) and chance she melt down a low hp target are inferior B - CDR fighter focused on burst, the way she should supposed to be played . Cdr to abuse her lunge reset, hp and resistance to complement around her "heal" . Someone suggest new fiora works around one offensive item , two if on lead, than full tank. Even considering new juggernout item ( the titanic hydra and the tanky one ), she still miss the base bonus of other tanky to supplement this suggested play style: she miss what synergize so well with "tank items" ( shield, damage reduction, bonus amor/mr/hp ). Building tanky won't give her bonus an equal amount on effective hp/ resistance like other tanky , neither her base / passive compensate from the damage she lost delaying offensive item. But for one second let's considering that the intended Riot's build works ( B ) . And let's move on and let's try to "mix" all those consideration. 3 - Now we're on teamfight. We were top, so we deny our team a strong tank/iniziator in that position. We have to wait our "supporter" or "jungler" engage, than we follow up . As soon the teamfight erupt, we got hard time reaching the backline and dropping down enought damage to 100-0 their carry ( we miss a long range gap close to reach them, and heavy cc to drop them down enought time to allow another follow up, and we miss damage to take him 100-0 alone. At the same time we miss the kit or sustained damage to zone him out, or survive the enemy focus long enought to be a real threat ) . This force us to focus on the " nearest big tanky target ". We pop ulti on him, pam, we proc some vital, we deal some serius damage and prob we also proc our Heal on our team but.. what wrong on this ? That's actually we're wasting 2/5 of our team resource ( not only fiora's one ) on the enemy target who's supposed to eat all their damage. New fiora is made to melt tank, but in order to melt tank she need a tankish char to open for her and lock him down. So all her gamestyle work around "let's hope my vital proc fast enought to kill their tank before the enemy melt me down " . Cause the enemy team won't sit there and watch meanwhile their tank is soaking damage: a fiora lack the tanky scaling to soak all the damage she will suffer sitting on mid ground position under heavy fire of enemy carry, that fiora can only hope to melt down and proc ulti before enemy melt ther down ( a tanky fiora ... an assassin will be down after not even a single vital proc ) . On mid game this could work ( ulti heal enought ) but on late game even 1000 unit of delayed heal are nothing compare to the damage of an enemy adc without an threat on him. Isn't this a bit to linear ? We can't go back line, we can't peel, we can't lock down or proprely zone, we can only help taking down big iniziator ( bigger than us thx to the full tank itemization and scaling ) without even having realiable way to mitigate his cc/base damage or enemy follow up. After that all fiora resource are over , like her utility. So the real question is : fiora is no more supposed to be an assassin, or a backdoorer. A solo monster or a nuker. Fiora is supposed to be an fighter focused on taking down a single big target fast enought to allow her team to avalanche ( after him engage on team, or after one of your team engage ) . So if this is all what she bring, why play fiora? There's way more interesting champ with the same focus on taking down a big target ( Trundle ), with a more realiable scaling on tankiness/damage ( shyvana ) , or better follow up ( darius ). A lot more champion cover the same role but got way more reliable engage/cc who make them able to adapt on battleground ( jax/gnar/relia ) or support your team. Into a team oriented vision, we waste a top slot ( ++gold ) for a champ who's supposed to counter the tank top laner enemy, but that bring a poor/unreliable damage and a even more poor utility than a standard top laner ( regardless if we talk about a tank one, a duelist, or a sustained mage ) The old fiora was niche : perfect to counter very fews matchup and able to carry a game alone in that situation. A situational pick, with her limits, but with her sense. On the new one they tried to make a less restrictive champion to pick, but we end having a champion who scale into a single binary approach, outshined by all the others heavy focused champs. And with the realease of juggernaut champions/item patch, this gap will be even more sad.